Passenger Cars of the South Park

Alternative Dates

Acquisition dates based on the C&S
passenger car diagrams and various authors.


The dates in the following table have been published in various sources as either the date cars were built or the date they were acquired by the South Park. In many cases, no distinction is made, as if the two were interchangeable. In many cases, the South Park acquired cars new from the builder, but in others it acquired used cars, as in the case of the six Gilbert, Bush & Co. cars—second #2, and coaches #11-15—which were purchased from the
New York Elevated Railroad.

The basis for most of these dates is the C&S passenger car diagrams, which were probably not started until 1899, if then, and the basis for which we do not know. If the South Park or the Denver, Leadville and Gunnison kept any such records, they are long lost. The purpose of these diagrams was to give the railroad’s engineering department basic knowledge for operation and repair of the cars. The builder name and date would have been of little importance to them other than to tell where to go for repair parts, suggest construction techniques which had been employed, and give an idea whether or not the car was worth repairing. No one creating such records had any idea we would be looking at them today as historical records. (No doubt had they done so, they would have been much more careful!??!)

DSP&P HISTORY DATE BUILDER DSP&P NUMBER CAR TYPE
No track laid 1872 UP Ry.
UP Ry. / DSP
#050
#051
Officer
Pay
No track laid 1873 B&S #4 - Halls Valley Coach
Track to Morrison - 16 miles 1874 H&Bro.
BD&Co/ATSF
BD&Co/ATSF
BD&Co/ATSF
UP Ry
UP Ry
UP Ry
UP Ry
#2 - Denver
#16
#17
#22
#40
#41
#42
#45
Coach
Coach
Coach
Coach
Baggage
Baggage
B-M-X
Baggage
No additional track laid 1875 B&S/Brill
B&S
BD&Co/ATSF

BD&Co/ATSF

PP Co
 
#5 - Leadville
#9
#23

#25

South Park
 
Coach
Coach
Coach-baggage
Coach-baggage
Pullman Palace
No additional track laid 1876      
No additional track laid 1877      
Track to Bailey's 1878   8 pr. psgr trucks  
Track over Kenosha Pass, to Como and beyond 1879 UP Ry.
BD&Co/ATSF
PP Co

PP Co

PP Co
 
#10
#24
Bonanza

San Juan

Leadville
 
Coach
Coach
Pullman Palace
Pullman Palace
Pullman Palace
Track over Trout Creek Pass to St. Elmo; to Leadville via D&RG 1880 H&Bro/DSP

GB&Co.
UP Ry/DSP

UP Ry/DSP

GB&Co
GB&Co
GB&Co
GB&Co
GB&Co
PP Co
PP Co
#1

Second #2
#6

#8

#11
#12
#13
#14
#15
#43
#44
Coach-baggage
Coach
Coach-baggage
Coach-baggage
Coach
Coach
Coach
Coach
Coach
B-M-X
B-M-X
U.P. assumes control; Alpine Tunnel bore completed; Track to Fairplay 1881      
Track through Alpine Tunnel to Gunnison; Over Boreas Pass to Breckenridge 1882 UP Ry/DSP
UP Ry/DSP
PP Co.

PP Co.
 
#7 - Como
Second #025
Kenosha

Hortense
 
Coach
Business
Pullman Palace
Pullman Palace
Track to Kokomo 1883      
To Leadville by its own tracks; Association with Pullman to share profits; Terrible winter; Default on bond interest 1884      
Default on bond interest 1885 B&S #3 - Geneva Coach
Default on bond interest 1886 PP Co.
PP Co.
PP Co.
PP Co.
UP Ry/PP Co
UP Ry.
#18
#19
#20
#21
#27
#28
Coach
Coach
Coach
Coach
Coach
Coach
Default on bond interest 1887      
South Park goes into receivership 1888      
Reorganized as Denver, Leadville & Gunnison 1889      

Note: Red characters in the DSP&P Numbers column indicate the information corresponds with what is presented on the Fleet Information page.
 

Our hope in presenting this table is to show this information cannot be depended upon.

1.   The dates presented here do not agree with other known records. For instance, newspaper accounts of the day show Coach-baggage #1 and Coach #2 being delivered within a month of each other in mid-1874. How then could #1 be built in 1880? Newspaper accounts of the day also say Coaches #3-5 came from Barney & Smith, and were delivered together in June of 1878. #4 could have been built in 1873 (perhaps December 31st?) and delivered in mid-1874, but #3 couldn’t have been built in 1885, nor #5 in 1875. Strike one!
2.   Didn’t the South Park have a grand ole time numbering cars? Usually when numbers aren’t sequential, it means cars were grouped according to type, or perhaps by builder. We’ll offer a $25 prize to anyone who can make sense of the dates and car numbers in this table. Until then: Strike two!
3.   The acquisition of cars doesn’t fit the history of the road. (a) What with one thing and another, it was 18 months from the date of the charter until the first track was laid. And then it was laid to what the builders expected to be a branch line location. But in the meantime, the road had acquired two business cars and a coach? (b) In 1874, with a 16 mile branch line “under its belt,” so to speak, it went out and bought four coaches, three baggage cars and a baggage-mail-express car?  (c) In 1875, without a smidgeon of hope for further track-laying that year, it acquired another two coaches, two coach-baggage cars, and got a Pullman Palace sleeping car assigned to it? (d) In 1879, unable yet to reach Leadville’s lucrative traffic, and building across sparsely settled South Park toward Gunnison, it acquired two more coaches and got two more Pullman Palace sleeping cars assigned to it? (e) In 1886, unable to pay its interest on its bonds for the third year in a row, it nevertheless acquired six more coaches? This chronology just doesn’t make sense. Strike three!

IF the builder information in the C&S passenger car diagrams are worth anything at all, it virtually has to be the date the car was built, not the date acquired, and even then it is highly suspect.
 

THIS WAY TO FLEET INFORMATION PAGE

09 April 2006

DSP&P Home DSP&P Car Locator UP/DL&G Car Loc. C&S Car Locator Carbuilder Locator DSP Fleet Info. Car-Bldr. Dictionary C&S Bibliography C&S Links C&S Car Website CC Car Website Carbuilder Website